42 Comments to “Personal Identity: Trust”

1. August 16th, 2007 at 6:25 am
   Brett Evans said

   Beautifully said.

   I love the part that “without trust you can’t smile or write”.

2. August 16th, 2007 at 7:17 am
   ME Strauss said

   Hi Brett!
   I love that you know what I meant when I said that. :)

3. August 16th, 2007 at 7:49 am
   Susan Cartier Liebel said

   Liz,

   Trust is a two way street….a child innocently trusts ‘initially’ and continues to trust because the one they trust is trustworthy. That security gives them the courage to venture out with smiles because they have a truthful safe place to come back to. In order to have others trust you, you have to prove yourself trustworthy.

   I grew up in a household where I knew I could trust my parents completely. As a result when someone trusts me, I consider this the greatest gift and could not live with myself if I violated that trust. It is the core of all relationships. It is what frees you in a relationship to be the genuine you.

   And you can’t be sometimes trusting or trustworthy. If you trust completely you are open to hurt. But if you never trust you are always closing the door on wonder. Better to be hurt and then move on, your ability to trust and be trustworthy intact.

4. August 16th, 2007 at 8:02 am
   ME Strauss said

   Hi Susan,
   You are lucky, like I was to have a family that is about trust. I so like that you name it a “truthful safe place to come back to.”

   I do think that trust is the core of all relationships. That’s why I so value authenticity — what is authenticity really, if it’s not trustworthiness?

   Yes being trusting means being trustworthy and vultnerable. It also means chosing wisely or we won’t last long enough to trust for another day. :)

5. August 16th, 2007 at 8:47 am
   Karin H. said

   Trust is character

   I hear you Liz, but isn’t it also a choice?

   Like Susan says so beautifully:

   If you trust completely you are open to hurt. But if you never trust you are always closing the door on wonder.

   Karin H.

6. August 16th, 2007 at 8:52 am
   ME Strauss said

   Oh yes, I agree it is a choice, but then, I think that character is a choice too. :)

7. August 16th, 2007 at 8:56 am
   Susan Cartier Liebel said

   To trust is a choice. To be trustworthy is character. You are both right.

8. August 16th, 2007 at 8:56 am
   Karin H. said

   ‘Ouch’ ;-)

   Now this is going to be interesting I feel. Acting in character or acting against your character, is that what you mean?

   Karin H.

9. August 16th, 2007 at 9:03 am
   ME Strauss said

   You’re right. This is getting interesting.
   What I meant was that your choices are (as in reveal and build) your character.

10. August 16th, 2007 at 9:07 am
    Karin H. said

    OK,

    Not revealing my character would (personal) go ‘against’ my character. So would not building ‘it’.
    I ‘owe’ this to everyone who trusts me.

    Karin H.

11. August 16th, 2007 at 9:07 am
    Susan Cartier Liebel said

    Yes, your choices (throughout your entire life) are your character traits…the way you are known. Therefore, the term “that’s so out of character for her/him”

12. August 16th, 2007 at 9:13 am
    Karin H. said

    Hi Susan

    I do believe in that the character traits are the way you are known, but am a bit ‘reluctant’ to call it choices.
    (Could it be my double Dutch English is not getting the finer nuance you’re telling, or my own believe in what a character is?)

    See, interesting ;-)

    Karin H.

13. August 16th, 2007 at 9:16 am
    Susan Cartier Liebel said

    Well, if character traits are not choices in behavior we make during our lifetime which culminates in our traits, then it is genetic. And I don’t agree with this. So, if it is not genetic, it must be learned behaviors we adopt or reject, ergo choice.

14. August 16th, 2007 at 9:25 am
    Karin H. said

    No, that was not not what I meant, sorry Susan to have confused the matter.

    To me, building your character is a choice - you do/dare or don’t - which translates into your ‘new’/changed traits.
    My ‘problem’ (problem of understanding that is) is the matter of choosing to reveal of build your character. IMHO that’s not a choice, but something you (I) automagically do - or is that then a character trait of me?

    (Now I’m starting to confuse myself!)

    Karin H

15. August 16th, 2007 at 9:28 am
    ME Strauss said

    Our choices add up to our character don’t they?

16. August 16th, 2007 at 9:32 am
    Karin H. said

    Yes, they do

    Karin H.

17. August 16th, 2007 at 9:48 am
    ME Strauss said

    Hi Karin!
    We find our choices in the mirror . . . if we’re brave enough to look. :)

18. August 16th, 2007 at 9:52 am
    Karin H. said

    Which brings us back to trust again Liz. ;-)

    If I can’t trust what I see in the mirror, all my traits, failings, building blocs etc - why should others trust what they can see without holding up that mirror.

    Karin H.

19. August 16th, 2007 at 9:55 am
    Mike said

    Interesting conversation here in the comments! ;-)

    I see where Karin is coming from in comment 12, but I think Liz nailed the core issue in comment 15. Our character is a series of conscious or subconscious choices we’ve made in our lives, which beget consistent, reinforcing choices (often more subconscious than conscious). After a while we forget it was a choice; we think it’s just who we are…

20. August 16th, 2007 at 9:58 am
    ME Strauss said

    Hi Mike,
    Isn’t it an amazing route this has taken? Our choices become who we are. Hmmmmm.

21. August 16th, 2007 at 10:02 am
    Karin H. said

    After a while we forget it was a choice; we think it’s just who we are…

    Ah Mike, where would we be without you?
    Now I understand fully (and agree fully too ;-))

    Karin H.

22. August 16th, 2007 at 10:05 am
    ME Strauss said

    Hi Karin!
    Mike’s a wonder, Isn’t he!

23. August 16th, 2007 at 10:07 am
    Mike said

    Thanks for having this conversation. I needed to remind myself of the words you highlighted, Karin! Where would we all be without each other? Not as wonderful a place as this.

    By the way, good morning and good afternoon to all!

24. August 16th, 2007 at 10:09 am
    Mike said

    Liz,

    I like it when you use that tone, instead of the befuddlement I occasionally generate! ;-)

    Mike

25. August 16th, 2007 at 10:15 am
    ME Strauss said

    Hey, Mike,
    I’m so tempted to call you a character.

    . . . but I won’t. :)

    You are the best!

26. August 16th, 2007 at 10:20 am
    Mike said

    Thanks Liz, and I wear the character badge with honor!

27. August 16th, 2007 at 10:21 am
    Karin H. said

    ;-) :-) :-)

    Karin H.

28. August 16th, 2007 at 10:28 am
    GP said

    ughs this is a tuffy for me. …. i come from the school of having been initially a trusting kid but in the shadow of “everything you say can and will be used against you”… I think it’s a gut feeling for trusting… and I listen to that voice

    gp in montana who hopes to be a trustworthy leader on picken as we head out yonder … stay tuned :)

29. August 16th, 2007 at 12:36 pm
    Jean Browman--StressToPower said

    I wrote a recent post (http://stresstopower.com/blog/2007/08/05/the-greatest-teachers/) entitled The Greatest Teachers. It’s based on a quote by the Dalai Lama and talks about putting more love and compassion into the world. I think that’s intimately connected with trust.

30. August 16th, 2007 at 1:21 pm
    ME Strauss said

    Hi GP!
    Trusting is hard enough in a high-trust environment. It’s close to impossible for me in a low-trust environment. I have a drawer of knives to prove why it’s just not a good idea to be careful. :)

    :)

31. August 16th, 2007 at 1:54 pm
    ME Strauss said

    Hi Jean!
    Welcome!
    Thanks for telling us about your blog post! I see so many places where love and compassion would make such a difference.

32. August 16th, 2007 at 3:11 pm
    Zakman said

    Quote Mike/Karin H. here: After a while we forget it was a choice; we think it’s just who we are…

    This is so like hand in glove to what I’m feeling right now. I’m exhausted after hours of trying to talk a fellow self-help group member into accepting help.

    He forgot the choice that we have, and reverted to resigning to ‘what it’s just what he was…’

    “Trust me,” I told him. “At this moment, I know what’s good for you, cause I was where you are not too long ago. You need immediate medical care.”

    But that didn’t leave the slightest of the dents. He insisted upon ‘it’s just what he is…’

    I left him on the streets and came back home alone.

    Thanks Mike/Karin for the quote… such an intense reminder to me that I have a choice.

33. August 16th, 2007 at 3:49 pm
    ME Strauss said

    Hi Zakman,
    I’m so sorry that you had to come home alone. It must have been hard to leave someone in a place that you knew well. That was courage on your part. You’re a brave man. Sometimes the hardest part is letting other folks make their own choices. You have my heart right now.

34. August 16th, 2007 at 4:35 pm
    Zakman said

    Liz,

    Yes it’s terribly hard. My heart is still bleeding for him.

    This has been going on since last Sunday. I only gave up tonight… and let him decide what was right for him, and perhaps he will discover. Perhaps not.

    Maybe he’ll get into some street fights (by the way, he’s a top official with a finance company… and supposedly smart), maybe he’ll get into jail, maybe he’ll lose all the cash he has. But I did make sure he will not drive… I stole his car keys ;)

    Since we’re talking about trust, I wonder why some can’t just accept it… why couldn’t he accept my trust and offer of unconditional help? I’d have taken him to the care centre and stayed with him all night :(

35. August 16th, 2007 at 6:35 pm
    ME Strauss said

    Hi Zakman,
    You cannot save someone. You surely know that, because, as you said, you’ve been there. We each have to save ourselves.

    You’re right he could lose everything he has. You have at least made sure he won’t hurt someone with his car.

    As far as accepting your trust goes . . . a person who cannot trust himself most likely cannot trust another. A person who fears what he himself might do can imagine what others might do to him.

    It’s not about you, Zakman, it’s about him and how his world is all about his problem.

36. August 17th, 2007 at 12:00 am
    Mike said

    Zakman,

    At some point he will ponder the choices he has made and the choices he has in front of him. And he will realize what is going on. For now, be at peace with the choices you have made in being a good friend, and in not being in control of your friend. I’ll keep you both in my prayers.

    Mike

37. August 17th, 2007 at 12:02 am
    Mike said

    Zakman,

    I’m not just spouting theories. I’ve walked a mile in those shoes of yours.

    Mike

38. August 17th, 2007 at 6:46 am
    Zakman said

    Hey Mike

    Thank you for your understanding.

    I’m just coming back from SpookyAction, and I read the following over and over:

    “First it is an outlier, as it lies outside the realm of regular expectations, because nothing in the past can convincingly point out its possibility. Second, it carries an extreme impact. Third, in spite of its outlier status, human nature makes us concoct explanations for its occurrence after the fact, making it explainable and predictable.”

    I didn’t understand the first two points, but I do have a vague comment on how human nature tends to forget–and self forgive–all the self motivated ‘mistakes.’

    For instance, I can come up with a hundred ‘concoctations’ as to why my life is like this today, and how none of it is my fault.

    I can explain it to a certain justifiable point, and it will be predictable as well…… just because I want to do the same mistakes again. It’s just a paradox.

    All I’m looking for is justification in the eyes of the world–to repeat my ‘mistakes.’

    While I understand it, I’m also not doing it any more. That was my experience. Thank you for reminding me of that.

    I’m still waiting for my friend to call. Like Liz said, I can’t help him. He has to help himself. And when he’s ready for that, I’ll be there for him.

39. August 17th, 2007 at 6:50 am
    ME Strauss said

    Zakman,

    For instance, I can come up with a hundred ‘concoctations’ as to why my life is like this today, and how none of it is my fault.

    I can explain it to a certain justifiable point, and it will be predictable as well…… just because I want to do the same mistakes again. It’s just a paradox.

    That is a lifetime of learning and an entire human being of wisdom and honesty. Wow!

40. August 17th, 2007 at 6:53 am
    Karin H. said

    Hi Zakman

    He has to help himself. And when he’s ready for that, I’ll be there for him

    You’re friend is very rich for having a friend like you. One day I’m sure he will know it too.

    Karin H

41. August 17th, 2007 at 7:13 am
    Zakman said

    Thank you guys for speaking back so quickly just when I needed it :)

    It’s very clear to me what I have to do now.

    I just let go. As simple as that :)

42. August 17th, 2007 at 9:41 am
    Mike said

    Zakman,

    I’m grateful that we could help. :-)

    Mike