14 Comments to “What is He Talking About? Chris Cree on Kids and Dogs”

1. January 13th, 2007 at 11:33 pm
   Rick Cockrum said

   My sixth grade mythology teacher had a bulletin board full of sayings like this. Another one he had, attributed to Genghis Khan was “If you can’t join ‘em, beat ‘em up.” He was one of my favorite teachers (seriously).

2. January 14th, 2007 at 5:27 am
   Chris Cree said

   Rick, how did he use those quotes in the classroom? Were they just there, or did he use them as discussion starters? I’m thinking that most middle school boys don’t need all that much encouragement to start fighting.

3. January 14th, 2007 at 5:20 pm
   ann michael said

   Chris -

   Kids and dogs are a lot of work, a very long commitment, and a financial (and sometimes emotional) drain. People should carefully consider whether they want either.

   When we got our dogs (we have two) I looked over the rescue pages for the breeds I wanted pretty carefully. It was really dishartening how many people just “didn’t know he would get that big” on the Great Dane page. These people didn’t do their homework and consider both the ramifications of dog ownership AND the breed that would be right for them. Shame on them - unfortunately, it’s the dog that loses.

   I’ll refrain from commenting on the kids issue - but let’s just say there are a lot of parents that didn’t think it through as well.

   I’m impressed that you and your wife have made such thoughtful decisions!

   Ann

4. January 14th, 2007 at 7:42 pm
   Daniel Sweet said

   I’ll leave the kid topic alone. I prefer thoughtful childlessness to thoughtless parenthood any day. Even if the “thoughtful childlessness” is often self-centeredness / selfishness in disguise.

   Not that this is you, but at least those that are in that situation have enough self awareness to realize that selfishness and kids don’t mix.

   However, I just can’t let the cats thing go. If the perfect pet for a guy is one that doesn’t require any serious maintenance, then my first pet when I moved out on my own was a cockroach.

   What’s the point of having a pet that you don’t really need to interact with? That’s like having a good marriage because you never see each other to fight, isn’t it?

   Dan

5. January 14th, 2007 at 8:22 pm
   ME Strauss said

   Daniel,
   I’m curious as to how you can decide what is in someone else’s head regarding “self-centeredness?” Please don’t decide what other folks are thinking.

   People who choose childlessness might have other reasons than those you assign. Perhaps a person has suffered a tragedy of some sort. Perhaps a couple wants to devote that time to their parents, or a disabled sibling, or to the poor, or to a religious calling. Or maybe they think the world is too full or too dangerous.

   We get to pick for ourselves. We don’t have to explain our reasons to each other. The folks I know, and there are plenty, who have chosen not have children are not self-centered.

   But folks who make judgments about them without meeting them, don’t find that out.

6. January 14th, 2007 at 11:41 pm
   Whitney said

   A high-ranking representative of the Southern Baptist Convention got a panel discussion on “Anderson Cooper 360″ all riled up last year when he bluntly said that all married couples have a moral obligation to produce children and that any who failed to reproduce were just selfish, selfish, selfish. He would not concede that there were cases when it would be best for couples to not have children, such as: poor finances, shaky marriages, demands of caring for elderly or disabled family members, demands of caring for younger siblings after one’s parents died, missionary work around the work. In his view, those people were selfish. It was if he’d reduced parenting to mere breeding…and one panelist told him as much. His comments were judgmental, condescending, dismissive. It was disheartening to hear in 2006.

   To add to your list, Liz, some people don’t have children because of health issues in their family lines. One friend has a frighteningly high rate of Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s, and cancer in his family — hasn’t skipped a generation and has cut wide swaths across individual generations; everyone in his parent’s generation, for example, either had Alzheimer’s or cancer. Another friend has such a streak of severe depression in her family –goes back multiple generations, not skipping a single one. In both cases, they’ve opted to either not have kids, or to adopt, because they can’t in “good conscience” have children knowing full well that the genetic card deck is frightfully stacked against them.

   Ann, the pitiful lack of education on the part of some pet owners unfortunately extends to other species. People who bought iguanas, not absorbing the fact they’d someday be six feet long. People who bought parrots, not realizing how verbal they could be. People who bought the small-and-furries (guinea pigs, rabbits, ferrets, chinchillas, etc.), not realizing how much daily care they require.

   It boils down to people not properly educating themselves, not fully exploring all the variables, before making major life decisions that require the height of responsibility and accountability and commitment…that affect another life.

   I have a lot of respect for Chris and his wife, and the thought and care they put into their decision. I wish others (starting with folks like Britney Spears) would put a little more thought into parenting.

7. January 15th, 2007 at 5:28 am
   ME Strauss said

   Thanks Whitney, for such a deep response.

   Judgmental comments frighten me. I’m all too aware that the person who made them could very well be talking about me next. I have a physical response to such things.

   I also believe that things aren’t meant to be a certain way just because I might think so. The universe seems to work well enough without most folks input. So I stick to deciding for me.

   Education is the key isn’t it? And the kind of education we get is even more critical. If we learn that the world is black and white, eveything will be all wrong or all right. If we learn that the world is complicated, we might see everything as an opportunity to be creative and a chance to look for a better way.

   How other-centered can you be, if you are busy dismissing people who don’t think as you do?

8. January 15th, 2007 at 6:42 am
   Chris Cree said

   First, while I appreciate y’all defending our decisions, these folks are right in our case. There probably is a certain amount of selfishness that has gone into our decision making process regarding children. We recognize that.

   But, as with most things, there is a bit of a trade off with there. While we have more flexibility in our time and our money (say for example because we aren’t buying groceries or fixing meals for teenagers as most of our friends are these days) we also don’t get any of those “smile on your face” moments that only your own child can create. Nor will we have our children there to help us out in our waning years as we are doing now for my wife’s folks.

   So are we being selfish? Perhaps. But if we are it would be a short sighted selfishness.

   We’ve thought it through and made a decision for us, though I certainly don’t think it is the best way to go for most folks.

   We have some options that are not available to most folks, of if they chose them would cost them more.

   Oh, and Daniel, I never claimed cat’s require no maintenance - they are low maintenance. (Ours are indoor only cats. Trust me they do require some attention. Or it would get icky fast.)

   My point is simply that men generally speaking tend to be far less nurturing than women. Dogs tend to be far more needy than cats. Yet somehow we’ve all been convinced by the dog lobby that dogs are man’s best friend.

   Of course I do know a few families where the husband was the driving force for getting the dog but the the wife (who maybe wasn’t so keen on the idea) is the one who ends up doing most of the caring work anyway. But that’s a whole different issue.

   To my way of thinking, cats seem to fit the bill a little better. Besides I don’t know of any cockroaches that would stretch out on their backs on my lap while I was sitting at my desk working so I could rub their bellies like one of our cats is doing right now.

   Small dog? Sure. But not a roach.

9. January 15th, 2007 at 7:06 am
   Daniel Sweet said

   Just to clarify a little…

   I should have said, “In my experience…” or “Of the folks that I know…” prior to my earlier comments about kids. I assumed you knew that I don’t know of the whole world.

   However, to be sure, among a large majority of folks that I know (30-something, middle-class/well-off, healthy), I actually ask them why they decided not to have children. Most of them have answered in a manner to indicate (self-acknowledged) selfishness (more money, nicer things, want to be “free”, etc.)

   I attached no judgement to their selfishness, just made an observation based on actual “field data”. Also, for what it’s worth, I consider people who adopt to have “had children” - they are not any less their children than those that grew inside them.

   Now, should I become just as incensed that Chris has called me and every other male in existance not nurturing just because I don’t like that? Isn’t that “judgemental”?

   And should my dog be offended that Chris has called her “needy”?

   For the record, I am not offended. I realize that Chris may be of a different opinion (dare I say, “has made different judgements”) than I, and that’s okay.

   What really scares me is folks that demand that others think, feel, and see things like they do, whether through a pulpit, a rally, or an angry blog post.

   Why is it okay for you to make a judgement on me (effectively saying, “No, you’re selfish!) while decrying “judgmental people”?

   Dan

10. January 15th, 2007 at 7:55 am
    Chris Cree said

    Well Dan, it’s simple. I’m right and you’re wrong!

    I am totally kidding of course!

    But you do bring up a good point. It is impossible to remove all judgment from our interactions. The very act of saying to someone, “You are judgmental” is in itself a judgment.

    Makes for an interesting discussion, though.

11. January 15th, 2007 at 8:22 am
    ME Strauss said

    Hi Dan and Chris,
    You’ve both made it clear that you’re talking about your personal opinions. I find those to be different from “making judgments.”

    Having an opinion is deciding something for me. Making a judgment in the context of where this all started is deciding thing for other people too.

    Sorry, Dan, that I thought you were doing that. I misinterpretted your words. Thanks for letting me know I had that wrong.

12. January 15th, 2007 at 8:54 am
    Daniel Sweet said

    Well, I’m glad we got that settled.

    Now, if you don’t mind, I’m going to go scratch the tummy of my pet cockroach.

    Dan

13. January 15th, 2007 at 9:34 am
    FRACAT - Free Resume and Career Toolbox - Home said

    [...] I was reading Liz Strauss’ “Successful Blog” and, being me, couldn’t resist commenting. [...]

14. January 15th, 2007 at 5:00 pm
    Sandra Renshaw said

    Hi Chris,

    Here’s a link to a blog you may like.

    http://purplewomenblog.blogspot.com/

    Sandy