Every person comes to his or her own views on religion and politics. I respect and honor those. I’d like to keep this conversation focused on the personal and the individual, not the national or international. Conversations on political or social problems are better and more deeply thought through in places other than on this blog in a single blog post. Please note that contributions that obviously belong in those other discussions will be not be posted here.
I need space to be understood and offer that personal space to the people I meet. If you are new or a long-time commenter, please feel welcome to discuss your views on the problem below. I truly would appreciate your wisdom and counsel.
There is, as always, only one rule here: Be nice.
personal integrity.
Last night, I put up a list of Women Bloggers. People have every right to question my doing that. I did too. I still am. It’s a matter of personal integrity.
I don’t speak a great deal about link lists on my blog, but it’s not hard to know my feelings about link lists that were made to boost rankings or game the system. So why did this one elicit a different response from me?
Did I cross my own line? Was I seduced by unconscious peer pressure? Was my reasoning really just a rationalization? Or was I being the complicated person I am? Humans are nothing if not complicated beings.
Too much information makes this problem bigger than I am. Yet I think it’s worth exploring, because we face dilemmas of this nature every day. What contributes to such decisions, I wonder?
Here’s what I know unequivocably.
As I begin writing, I don’t know for sure why I made the list.
I do know this. I invested close to 3 hours putting my part of the list together, despite the fact I worried about the people I would leave out. I find the list a resource because sometimes a woman’s point of view is what’s needed. Last night proved that I don’t know enough of them. Even now two blogs come to mind that I wish I had remembered to include.
When I first saw the W-List, my plan was to say “thank you and move on.” Sometime last night that plan changed. Several factors might have influenced such decisions come to be. Here are the influences and the questions those raise for me as I look back.
- Who I am as a person — I am an individual who creates my own path. I don’t feel I’ve be obstructed unfairly — Was it link love or a sell out?
- My history — I grew up with brothers in an all boys’ neighborhood. Don’t you dare say I throw like a girl — Was I honoring women or leaving out men?
- I was on the list — Was it ego or gratitude?
- New versions of the list were coming up, always with new content added by the blogger who offered it — Was it appreciation or peer pressure?
- The fact that I was surprised by the number of great blogs I had not seen before — Was it guilt or a wish to share?
Who knows what other factors might have been an unconscious part? I went back to my “Dear Emperor” post this morning. I can say I passed the test that I set.
As they say in the world of law, we might be able to prove possible motive, but we cannot ever know someone else’s intent. I’m finding now it’s not that easy even to know my own every time.
At the end of writing this . . . it’s been close to two hours and then, I’ve taken out 60% of what I wrote . . . but I know more. I state it calmly and gently here with my head and my heart.
I celebrate the women bloggers on the list. By giving to them, I take nothing from the men I esteem. I only wish I had taken the time to celebrate the men too.
As a child I knew, sometimes my parents celebrated one of their children without mentioned the other two. Yet each of one of us was always their favorite.
One lesson that I have always had trouble with is that when I’m not included it’s rarely about me. (And when I am, that’s usually not about me either.)
Sometimes is just a list.
Gosh, thanks for listening. Feel free to disagree.
As a following note: Before I leave, I’d like to mention that I don’t believe much in fate or omens, but I do enjoy delicious irony and blogger synchronicity. When I awoke I found these. Brief Case Study: Liz Strauss appreciating readers on Successful Blog through comments and through encouragement awards and Now, Make me feel important! who pointed me to The W (and M) List – Promoting Quality Bloggers
Good writing has a point. The point should be expressed clearly. Excess material distracts from the point, and unrelated material distracts, confuses, or even changes the intent of the writer.
Making a list of women bloggers is relevant. Any group, whether identified by gender, is capable of sharing aspects of thought or other characteristic. The fact that your point doesn’t suit another’s agenda is not a reason to worry about that criticism.
Liz, this seems more a case of good writing than confusion of principles. If it helps, try humming ‘raidrops on roses, and whiskers on kittens, ..’ from Sound of Music. You chose the topic, and provided the explanation. Ta-da!
Enjoy!
Hi Brad!
Every comment you write lives up to yuor standard set by the first paragraph here. I’ve begun to anticipate them when I see your name come through.
It was an excellent exercise for me to test my own motivations. I don’t regret the exercise for a moment. But as you might suspect . . . humming “raindrops on roses . . .” won’t be happening. π
I just came upon your Blog from the Rockin’ Girl mania that’s been going on this morning.
I just wanted to say that I’m a person that loves reading lists. I don’t care why the person writes a list as long as the list is going to give me information that I’m looking for.
The list you wrote gave me the chance to find some awesome blogs on the Intenet.
Thank You
I am starting to come here all the time not just for Liz’s posts, but for Brad’s comments!
I dunno – the jury is still out on my complete thought. I belong to women networking groups – not because I segregate women, but because it is where I am most comfortable. But, I know divisiveness based on race or religion irritates me. Not real sure what the difference is or why there is one. Like I said – the jury is still out.
I will say I am in all ways a chick. I revel in my womanhood. Tell me I throw like a girl and I will say “Awesome ain’t it!”
But, I don’t begrudge the manliness of men. I appreciate the differences and the way they compliment each other…
I am in serious danger of rambling…the jury has been released for lunch and will resume deliberations at a later time.
Hi April!
Aren’t Brad’s comments wonderful!
I’m the opposite of you in that women’s groups are not where I’m most comfortable. . . . I like the company of women in ones, twos, and threes.
Groups in general aren’t my favorite venue.
I like to know people as individuals.
That being said. I find the difference between men and women fascinating. π
You know Liz, I’ve gone off my rocker on a post or two…not really thought it through and posted anyway. That’s not what I see here. What I feel here is that you had a gut response, and intuitive rumbling, and that rumbling made it’s way into print.
To me that’s the beauty of blogging. The delicious intersection of what we do for a living and how we feel about our living.
What I most appreciate is that you’ve lived in this world not accommodating the men vs. women story. And my guess is that early on you didn’t even know it existed. You just did your life, confident as all heck most of the time, damn the torpedos.
Again, I think it’s the “omissions” that cause us to take a stand.
Lovely mind, Liz.
this is very germane to a post i’ve been carrying around in my head for the last few days (there must be a special area marked “blogs” in there, right beside “food” and “children” π
i thoroughly enjoy linking to other bloggers, and i don’t expect anything in return. it’s a WEB, after all. and/but: in a web the thread/link goes both ways, and lately i’ve been wondering whether some of my enthusiastic linking is being perceived as linkbait. (thanks for the “emperor” posting – that has certainly cleared things up!)
as to the issue of linking to women but not men: every action, every utterance implicitly excludes a vast number of people, places and things. when you blog, you exclude the action of swimming. when you talk to judy, you don’t talk to marc. it’s the totality of your expression and behaviours that counts.
plus, we have certain interests and not others. not only that, there is only so much time/space to express our interests.
although i’m curious now – are you going to eventually have a list of links to men bloggers?
Oh Lisa!
Thank you for this wonderful statment! To me thatΓ’β¬β’s the beauty of blogging. The delicious intersection of what we do for a living and how we feel about our living.
Everyone is a “people,” and every time I try make a generalization about a group I lose. I don’t want to be defined by a group. Why would anyone else? You’re right. I don’t get the whole “we” vs. “they” thing anywhere that it ever exists.
Richard Bach once wrote
Meet with your friends at the core of the matter where you agree. Not at the fringes where you differ.
To me that only makes sense.
It’s so much more fun to be on the same side of the table.
Liz,
I can’t know what’s in your head, but I’m pretty sure that Emperor’s test is hard-wired in there somewhere, and you couldn’t post something that violated it. π
Mike
Hi Mike!
I think if anyone could see inside my head, it might be you. After all, you’ve planted artwork there. π
Liz,
Yes I did! π
I really like the Richard Bach quote. So true! I wrote a while back on the awesome destructive power of “them, and since have realized that the world consists of two groups: 1) me, 2) my friends (some of whom I’ve met, and some of whom I’ve not, but need to be thought of that way).
Mike
Mike,
I truly love the way your brain works. It’s spooky. π
Liz,
It’s interesting to follow your thinking and “inner struggles” on this. Thanks for sharing.
(Just about) every blogger has the vanity to want to be included on a “Top XX” list. Why not? And when we’re not . . . we think about it.
I used to want to be on Mack Collier’s “Top 25 Marketing Blogs” because I thought it would be neat and because I respected most of the blogs included. After I qualified — in terms of Technorati ratings — Mack told me he liked my blog a lot, but that I wasn’t a “marketing blog.” He was right, of course. I was a “creativity and ideas” blog. And I was grateful for that, and also grateful not to be limited to only one field! (But also grateful to be connected to the marketing folks.)
Hi Isabella!
I have a list of Successful and Outstanding Bloggers — it is filled with men and women I admire. Lucky for me Rebecca at mordite [see the W (and M) List link above] has started a men’s list and I let that be — at least until next week. π
Now that I’ve thought through my reasoning. I understand that to favor one for a moment is not to disfavor the next. π
Hi Roger!
I so appreciate your candid comment on this. Thanks for sharing your thinking too.
It’s funny, isn’t it that the appearance of a list makes us look to see whether we’re included. I imagine we all feel a little left out when we are not. I get what you’re saying about marketing blogs. Part of me wants to be “in the club” and yet, I don’t want to write a marketing blog. π
Liz, I appreciate you are struggling with this. You saw another list…it bothered you this disproportionate number of women on that list..it triggered a response, a gut reaction, you said, ‘hey, there are so many awesome women bloggers out there…this list is not representative’..you made a list and now others are responding as you did to the first list. I’m sure lists will spring up in response to yours. It’s all a chain reaction. And guess what? We’ll all be richer for having identified new blogs we would never have seen, right? You did your job. Stop questioning yourself.
Hi Susan!
Thanks for your insights into my process. I’m feeling fine and I’m glad that I shared how I got here. π
Greets Liz:
Just to first clear any ambiguities regarding my first name, I’m male and in my 40’s.
I’ve found your blog through one of the recent postings on Lorelle’s WordPress blog.
I’m about to embark on two different journeys blog-wise. One is an expansion of my radio show’s site, to take a more active blogging approach on what I wish to share relative to the music that I promote. The other is more personal: I’ve decided to create a separate blog that’s an expansion of what’s on my mind, hoping to enlighten others. It’s not live yet, but will be soon.
I’ve been pouring over many a blog over the last week or so, and I find many of them candid and refreshing, witty and insightful, colorful and wise. Most of the blogs I’ve read were from women. While you grew up with men, I grew up with women. I have great respect for the feminine side and how deep and honest they tend to express themselves. Knowing this, I’ll soon explore the male blogs that you and others recommend.
I have a lot to learn about writing blogs, and of writing them well. But if I learn anything from what I’ve read, as in life, is that to respect who you are means that you will never please all the people all the time. We have our first thoughts, then (luckily) we return to refine our thoughts, and finally put them out to the universe. I am incapable of controlling externalities once I let my thoughts go free; all I can do is respond in kind as best I can and know that my heart, soul and integrity poured into the words I’ve written.
At times like the present, it’s good every now and then to start a dialogue like this to bring other views to the fore. It’s good that there are those with similar views, and it’s also good that, as one of the respondents put it, that there’s much to appreciate from having both male and female perspectives.
The perspective is mine; I look forward to reading everyone else’s. Your blog is a keeper, Liz. Thanks for what you do.
OK, Liz, here goes (re: integrity, link lists, and knowing one’s heart):
You know that I blog about the workplace and our conversations emanate from that point.
When I saw Valeria’s post about the “W” list, it was timely. My fellow blogger on management, Jim Stroup, had just posted a fine treatise on women in business, executive roles, etc. So I thought: “This is a great way to combine the two. A celebration as well as a look at some deeper, related issues.”
Then I thought: “Oh, for sure, someone is going to accuse me of linkbaiting and other crimes against humanity.” So I gave pause and thought it through.
The outcome: I did the post. It was clear to me that my heart was intact from the outset, that it would help achieve two worthwhile goals, and I would be weakened in my own mind and heart if I caved in.
Ultimately, it was an issue of integrity and doing the right. If there are those who wish to second-guess motive and walk down a negative path, may they enjoy their unproductive wallowing.
When it comes to integrity we all know the basics (don’t lie, don’t steal, ect.), our individual preferences and personalities decide how to weight each holds. We decide who we want to be and what we want to be about our principles are our guides in this.
In situations like you described with your womens list. The best way to figure out if you crossed a line is to ask yourself if it feels good. There is nothing at all wrong with the list itself. Your feelings on the issue are what makes it unclear (maybe you like the list, and at the same time are afraid it may hurt other feelings. Which you wouldn’t want to do).
By the way- on a personal level I think your list is great! I’d call it link love. I have no doubt that you had only good intentions behind it. Remember- if you worry too much about the negative consequences, you will never accomplish anything positive.
“There is nothing at all wrong with the list itself.” – I agree with that.
“Was it link love or a sell out?” – absolutely not.
“Was I honoring women or leaving out men?” – Honouring women. For me, my hang-up was with the ratio and the implication of oppression. It’s still a fantastic list! Drop the ratio and make it truly about honouring women!
“Was it ego or gratitude?” – knowing you, gratitude – no question about it.
“Was it appreciation or peer pressure?” – Honest appreciation with an added push from the recent BlogHer.
“Was it guilt or a wish to share?” – Liz, come on now! What was your biggest complaint about the list? The fact that you couldn’t include them all! I really don’t think it was guilt driven.. π
As for integrity, I shall quote Greg over at SmallBusinessTransitions.com:
“Integrity is largely misunderstood in North American society. Integrity is not something you do for others but something you do for yourself.
Integrity is that small voice within you that is nagging you to do that task you have ben putting off. It is that tension and anxiety you feel, knowing you need to pay attention to something you are avoiding. Behind those feelings and nagging thoughts is your Γ’β¬Λintegrity compassΓ’β¬β’.
Your compass is what is pulling and urging you to get moving, to act. All to often we ignore the Γ’β¬ΛitchΓ’β¬β’ and encouragement to be responsible and maintain our integrity.”
Hi Velanche!
Welcome to the conversation!
I wish I had taken such a thoughtful approach to my blog before I started writing, but alas, I don’t think I would have ever had the patience — even had I the sense. π
Your points about women’s blogs you have read ring true of wise women through the ages that we have all known. I hope your find the wise men who live up to the same level — there are many out there, write me if you have any trouble find them.
Thank you for calling me a “keeper.”
You’re not a stranger anymore.
Steve,
You are a man of substance and action. I knew what I was doing and that it was right. I just had to confirm with myself again this morning in “daylight.” π
Hi Priscilla!
Thanks for your comment and Welocme!
I like that thought if you worry too much about the negative consequences, you will never accomplish anything positive.
I’ll be remembering that. π
Hey Tully!
Ah the ratio! I find it curious only because I’ve never run into it myself until lately. So it stands out to me the way new and different thing do.
I won’t even talk about all of the wonderful compliments you pay me right after that. π I’ll just smile and say thank you. π
Thank you so much for the definition of integrity that you brought with you!
I value your thoughts enough to think think them through. π
Thanks kindly for the warm welcome, Liz. You are hereby part of this journey through the unknown that I’m embarking on, and indeed I will contact you in due course about finding the males once I am wholly established and ready to share.
Priscilla’s quote is one that I think many of us tend to forget. I’ve certainly done so at times when fear, uncertainty and doubt (FUD, for you tech-savvy peeps) creep into my being. It’s something I’m working on, because humans have been trained oh-so-well (directly and indirectly) worrying about the negative.
The mind is so good at planting deceit that’s created through our imagination. Being aware of when such things come to play is helpful, and I’m practicing that slowly but surely. By my being aware, I can at least thwart the possibility that such thoughts are going to seep into my being. So thanks for that, Priscilla.
I now return you to your normal, extraordinary life already in progress.
Liz, every time I read your blog I appreciate how much of yourself you put into it. Thank you. When you asked those questions in the middle of this post, I assumed the most positive. It was link love, it was honoring women (not saying that men shouldn’t receive attn), it was gratitude (do you even have a big ego to get over??), it was appreciation and it was definitely a wish to share (I love what William said above)! I don’t know you very well and we’ve never met in person, but I just get feelings about people and I can usually see whether they are being fake or real. You have always come across as real to me.
Something I’ve learned time and time again is that if you care about coming across with a particular attitude, especially a positive one (e.g. you don’t want to come across as egotistical with this list) that’s probably the way you’ll be perceived (not egotistical). Your true intentions will be evident to most people. It’s a hard concept for me to explain… it makes sense in my head though!
Liz, Liz, Liz – you egotistical, sell out of a link lover of all things woman. π
Bah! It’s a list … of bloggers … whom happen to be women … many of whom I’ve never heard off … Cool, more blogs and voices to check out. The End.
Don’t over-complicate it. Trust your instincts. You obviosuly felt there was a need for such a list and went with it.
Yes, us men bloggers tend to be louder, rowdier and more out there. Woman bloggers can be just as rowdy but generally tend not to (which can be a breath of fresh air). I usually tend to pick my fav bloggers on their voice, style and opinions over time rather than if they’re male or female.
As much as we try to lump everyone into one big group, lets not deny ourselves the differences of the sexes. It adds some spice to life.
Therefore your comment “I find the difference between men and women fascinating.” great on so many levels.
Life would be dull (and frustrating) otherwise. π
Hey Velanche!
I’m having fun reading the joy that you put between the words that you write. Keeping track of where our imagination takes us so that we don’t delude ourselves is certainly a quest.
Glad to have you here on this journey.
Hmmmm, bet you thought blogging was about the writing. We all did. π
Hello Lauren Marie!
Thank you for your faith in me. I try to live up to it. After all I did name this post “Personal Integrity,” didn’t I? π π
I’m as real as I know how to be in this venue. My husband would say this isn’t me. He would say it’s that person who types all day. She gets cranky too. π
No worries about what you were trying to say. It made total sense to me. π
Thank you for thinking I’m worth talking to about this. I feel the same way about YOU.
Martin, Martin, Martin,
That is the BEST FIRST LINE I’ve read in a very long time. Thank you for that!!!
You bet I’m with you on the part where you say “Life would be dull (and frustrating) otherwise. Give me a roomful of men and women. That’s the combination I feel most comfortable in. Together we all seem to behave best. Guess that would mean we bring out the good in each other. π
After reading about 70 comments between this post and the original “list” post, my head is spinning. I’ve been away so I haven’t yet thanked Valeria for including me or continued the list with a post of my own.
Honestly, it’s not usually the kind of post I do so I’m planning it for the weekend (when I’m usually “off” blogging).
I never have thought of my self as a woman blogger, a woman businessperson, etc. even though I’ve been quite happy to have been born female.
I can’t argue with many of the fine points women raise about culture and training and psyche and how it often comes together and puts women at a disadvantage.
However, I’ve never personally felt that way. I’m not a victim of my birth or my upbringing. I have run into some discriminatory situations but honestly – their loss!
I support women. I support men. I support honesty, integrity, and collaboration from where ever it emerges!
Go Liz!!!! You are the queen of integrity!
Hey Ann!
It wasn’t my plan to write this post today either. Yet, go figure, it was the one that needed for me to write it out. π
Like you I’ve never felt a victim either. I’ve just been a woman who got to do much of what she wants. My life has been lucky tha way. I guess. π
Hi Liz, if all decisions were black and white, life would be pretty dull, don’t you think? The fact is, most of the time we do things without knowing completely why, or do them even when we know there are reasons not to. I agree with the commenters who say follow your instincts. Whatever your motives, by taking the time to put together that list, you created an opportunity for readers to discover new sources of ideas and conversation. I appreciate it!
Yes, a list is just a list, but when someone with the reputation and credibility you have established makes one – well people take note.
What I would ask is, was there any criteria for being on the list beyond the basic one of being a woman? If not, then I don’t see that it means much more than these are blogs that you like and are written by women. You might also make a list of blogs written by people who live in a certain geographic area or who have a certain professional background. Any such lists will be subjective, and readers should understand that.
A list of women bloggers with specific criteria for inclusion such as longevity in the blogosphere, number of comments elicited, focus on women’s issues or other specifics might be more meaningful. (and give less cause for question) But, in the end still your perspective and your list.
Anyone who has followed you knows that you put a lot of thought into your recommendations, so I don’t think you need to justify your list. Being on your list is not a bad thing. Not being on your list is not a bad thing either. That’s the beauty of it.
I’ve been absent from the blogosphere. This seemed like a good topic to bring me back π
Hi Brad!
I could have sworn that I answered your comment yesterday. Boy I was feeling poorly. I must have answered it my head and not here.
Black and white . . . I live in the gray.
Thank you for understanding that I was trying to present an opportunity — both for the bloggers on the list and for the folks who read my blog. I’m so impressed by all of the new bloggers I found there. I wanted to share them freely.
Hi Francie!
Great to see you! Great question!
What I would ask is, was there any criteria for being on the list beyond the basic one of being a woman?
I truly wanted to showcase some great blogs for my readers to see. π
Man, you go out on the road, and you miss out on SO much stuff!
I just returned to find The W List – which I thought might be in some way related to staying at the W Hotel during BlogHer – and how little I fit in with all the uber-cool W patrons and their bored-with-all-this-luxury looks. But NO! It’s a list of girls who happen to blog!
You know – it’s a list. It’s a fun list. And it introduces me to new people. I’m always sort of stunned at how “ready to be offended” people can be. (Myself included on some occasions.)
Thanks for including me!
Hey you, Christine!
I know all about feeling left out . . . any list I’m not on — Ten Most Wanted — Is made up of people so superior to me. π