33 Comments to “Bloggy Question 81: A Nice Gesture”

1. April 20th, 2008 at 10:00 pm
   Brenda Bunney said

   I had something similar happen to me. I didn’t appreciate it very much.

   Someone asked me if I could write a couple of articles for them. Later he wanted to read the Free Ebook I give away…. which was fine, but he took the book and wrote a review on it using my name, etc. which I never gave him permission to use.

   He was just deceptive and sneaky. I never contated him, but I won’t work with him again.

2. April 20th, 2008 at 10:55 pm
   ME Liz Strauss said

   Hi Brenda!
   It’s not fun when folks make less of our work because they think less of how the universe is ordered. I stay away from them too. :)

3. April 20th, 2008 at 11:53 pm
   kristarella said

   I’d say,

   I appreciate their support, but I’d prefer them not to use my products in pop-ups or pop-unders. It’s each webmaster’s choice to use them or not, but I find them annoying and I know many other people do too. I’d rather not be known than be known to be annoying.

4. April 21st, 2008 at 4:27 am
   Karin H. said

   Hi Liz

   I would kindly explain to her - and somehow manage to say I’d told her before - that our business principle stands for straightforward and open honesty, not for ’sneaky’ pop-ups or unders.
   If she really want to help out, she should ‘abide’ with our principle otherwise we would hate to say: thanks but no thanks.

   Karin H. (Keep It Simple Sweetheart, specially in business)

5. April 21st, 2008 at 4:39 am
   Paul OFlaherty said

   What can you do really? Accept and appreciate the intent but ask them to remove the pop-unders as they are against your ethics.

   At the end of the day, if they truly care they’ll realize that you appreciate it but will also realize the conflict and should have no issues with killing the pop-unders.

   If they don’t understand then you’ve got to ask if they truly understand what you’re about and if they’ve got an angle of their own for promoting your product in that manner.

6. April 21st, 2008 at 6:10 am
   ME Liz Strauss said

   Hi Kristarella!
   Sometimes the simplest response seems to elude me. Of course, that would be a great way to handle it. :)

7. April 21st, 2008 at 6:12 am
   ME Liz Strauss said

   Hi Karin!
   I like your use of the word “sneaky.” That’s exactly how I feel about those pop- things. It’s as if the site owner is trying to act as if they don’t exist.

8. April 21st, 2008 at 6:14 am
   ME Liz Strauss said

   Hi Paul,
   That is a question, isn’t it? Whether she had intent for using a popunder, knowing full well that they didn’t match with the product or the company.

   Your advice, as always, is thoughtful.

9. April 21st, 2008 at 6:19 am
   Paul OFlaherty said

   Liz I have a feeling you’ve thought about it yourself.. The first heading gives it away: “And not think about motives”.

   In honesty I believe it’s fair to say that everybody has a motive behind what they do.

   The question is whether the motive is selfish or not?

   Some people do things for the purely unselfish motive of helping out for the “good feelings” they get for helping out.

   But other people?

   The trick (and hardest thing to do) is to figure out another persons true motivation…

10. April 21st, 2008 at 8:48 am
    SpaceAgeSage said

    I have found that setting boundaries and making other people understand them with candid explanation is tough, but it keeps us more sane. Motivation, even when asked for, can be elusive, so I prefer to stick to my guns and my guts and let others deal with their own motivations.

11. April 21st, 2008 at 9:54 am
    Alex Shalman said

    I think pop-ups and pop-unders are an awesome way to get people’s attention. It POPS and should be used for the very best promotions and not just regular promotions. This way when it POPS it demands attention.

    If I visited another site and they had my site popping in any way shape or form for their visitors you better believe that I would e-mail them to express my gratitude.

    IMHO I think it’s foolish to call a pop-ads sneaky. They’re the opposite of sneaky, they’re in your face.

12. April 21st, 2008 at 10:00 am
    Karin H. said

    Alex, on my own website I do use pop-overs with special offers etc (free reports etc) that get my visitors attention for the right reasons - they expect advice, reports on the subject from us.
    Pop-ups for our website on someone else’s website is IMHO still not right (and sneaky, why not mention the link and the benefits my website would give in a straight forward simple way).

    Karin H.

13. April 21st, 2008 at 10:03 am
    Alex Shalman said

    You can put banners, links, posts, popovers popunders… whatever.

    All I’m saying is that if I went to your site and you had any type of promotion for me I would be very happy.

    Each of these marketing methods has it’s own purpose, whether is link juice, branding, traffic, or whatever other recognition that comes with it.

    It’s all beneficial. If I had your site popping under on my site, and you wanted me to remove it, I would gladly do that for you. However, I would definitely not ask you to remove my site from popping under yours, you can be sure of that much. In fact, I would thank you. =)

14. April 21st, 2008 at 10:10 am
    Karin H. said

    Of course, each its own preferred way ;-)

    Karin H

15. April 21st, 2008 at 10:20 am
    ME Liz Strauss said

    Hi Alex!
    I’m so smiling. I hear how strongly you feel. I guess it would depend on whether your name was on it too. If you had your logo next to mine, then I’d feel like you were endorsing what you put on the pop-whatever . . . When things popunder, sometimes I don’t notice them until later and I don’t know what site they originally came with. So it seems like a way that webpage owner can distance himself or herself from the content of the popunder.

16. April 21st, 2008 at 10:22 am
    Alex Shalman said

    Sure, to each his own, but I can’t think of too many people who would blatantly refuse free promotion. I guess this depends on what their intention is. If the intention is to promote a business by getting more traffic, I think all traffic would be welcome. Especially traffic from a site that has a mature audience.

    Then again, if you’re selling some kind of sprockets for a plumbing supply company I don’t think you’d care if a personal development site, where people are reading about ways to improve themselves, would promote sprockets or not.

    If I visited a plumbing site that had my ads running for free I wouldn’t object. I wouldn’t even object if a porn site was running my ads, although if I found out I might write an article about porn addiction :)

17. April 21st, 2008 at 10:28 am
    ME Liz Strauss said

    Hi Alex!
    I think you make a good point about the intention. Some folks go after digg traffic. Some folks think digg traffic is useless. In the end it depends on the kind of traffic you want/need for your site — and the image that you’re trying to project.

    Popunders are push advertising.

    So say you did a popunder for Seth, who is all about permission marketing. I don’t suppose he would be thrilled, because
    a. popunders are at cross purpose to what he believes
    b. the nature of popunders is that they appear to be from the content provider they advertise and not the site they are attached to.

18. April 21st, 2008 at 10:29 am
    Alex Shalman said

    Promotion is promotion people. Free is free. If you get your logo somewhere it’s awesome.

    I can see if a few KKK members are marching around ‘endorsing’ your brand on a billboard. This is horrible, horrible.

    Liz,

    In the event that your site pops under from another, even if the reader loses track of where it came from or who endorsed it, the people still see the brand. The next time they see your brand they’ll think “i’ve seen this before, I want to explore.” - That’s simply how branding works.

    Experts say it takes 7 exposures before a sale is made. This is my 4th comment, I might have 3 more to go before you’re sold on this idea lol

19. April 21st, 2008 at 10:31 am
    Karin H. said

    Hi Alex

    No, I’m not against free promotion at all, far from that! It’s the way my website - products and services - are promoted on someone else’s website. That has to keep in line with our ‘branding’ and principle because it can easily destroy - without you doing anything wrong at all - all the good and hard work that has gone into that branding and upkeeping of principle.
    Not all free advertising is ‘free’.

    You could say I’m rather principled in that ;-)

    Karin H.

20. April 21st, 2008 at 10:32 am
    Alex Shalman said

    Seth is right. Permission marketing is awesome and is a great way to make an idea viral.

    However, by relying solely on permission marketing you are leaving money on the table.

    If the whole world switches to permission marketing and all of a sudden only one company has billboards come up, being the only billboards in town, that company is going to get great exposure and great business from people that don’t have anyone to talk to or get recommendations from.

    Don’t leave money on the table, diversify.

21. April 21st, 2008 at 10:32 am
    ME Liz Strauss said

    Hi Alex!
    I’m so looking forward to the next three! Oh here’s one now!

22. April 21st, 2008 at 10:34 am
    Alex Shalman said

    Karin,

    If you’re brand can be destroyed by one person doing popunders that simply point to your site then your brand is weak.

    You need some brand insurance.

    I can’t imagine how this could happen though.

    Let’s do an experiment. Make a popunder that just points to my site. After 6 months I’ll let you know if it did damage to my brand or if I got readers and subscribers. Chances are that once people get to the site and see the content they’ll stay. What are those chances? Even if they’re 1% that means we’re doing well.

23. April 21st, 2008 at 10:35 am
    ME Liz Strauss said

    Interesting theory, Alex.

    Though I don’t think we’re in danger of the world going silent in my lifetime or even yours. :)

24. April 21st, 2008 at 10:37 am
    Karin H. said

    However, by relying solely on permission marketing you are leaving money on the table.

    I do think many marketers won’t agree with this, I don’t.
    Short term money, yes. Long term money - no way! Permission marketing is all about creating a relationship with your prospects, clients. building trust.

    No matter how many times I would see a bill board, it wouldn’t make me trust that company perse.

    Karin H.

25. April 21st, 2008 at 10:38 am
    Alex Shalman said

    Liz,

    You might be wrong. A nuclear attack could possibly cause some silence.

    On the other hand if enough respectable business bloggers such as yourself spread the message to leave money on the table than I will be willing to come scoop up the money that people left behind.

26. April 21st, 2008 at 10:40 am
    Alex Shalman said

    Karin,

    ‘Trust’ is a loose word in marketing. You see a that Geico Gecco enough times and you’ll give it some serious thought next time you’re shopping for car insurance.

27. April 21st, 2008 at 10:41 am
    Alex Shalman said

    Anyway, that’s past my comment quota already. Nice chatting with you Liz and Karin, but I’m going back to my project. Have a great day.

28. April 21st, 2008 at 10:41 am
    Karin H. said

    Hmm Alex, I don’t think we have a weak brand, but I still wouldn’t want the wrong type of branding coming through - no matter how well intended or how free. So I’m as strong minded as our brand and principles I’m afraid.

    I will never refuse free promotion of our website, brand or products as long as the promoter and we agree on the context of what, why and how. That’s the only objection I have against your ‘free promotion’ is always good, to me it isn’t.

    Karin H.

29. April 21st, 2008 at 10:45 am
    Karin H. said

    ‘Trust’ is a loose word in marketing

    Ouch Alex. Not in my book and not in my business. Trust is the foundation of our marketing, long-term relationship building and living principles.

    But indeed, nice chatting to you too, hope your project goes well.

    Karin H

30. April 21st, 2008 at 10:54 am
    ME Liz Strauss said

    Oh Alex,
    People tune out and ignore push marketers. Do you actually read popunders that aren’t your own or your friends? Push marketers leave money on the table because they push people away.

    I pick up money they leave behind when I sit on the same side of the table with customers and align my goals with theirs. They look for reasons to work with me again.

    On that nuclear event — it might silence things, but it won’t stop push marketing among survivors. Some folks don’t have the patience to invest in a relationship - They go for fast money and work twice as hard over a lifetime, because they have no relationship loyalty from their customers. They have to keep feeding the monster, or it goes away.

31. April 21st, 2008 at 11:43 am
    Alex Shalman said

    I agree that permission marketing is better. I agree that under limited resources it’s the direction to go. It’s just not the only way and I wouldn’t be offended if someone decided to give me free advertising by linking to me from a popup.

    I only came back because I had a reese’s pieces and I like you more than reese’s pieces. But now back to project.

32. April 21st, 2008 at 3:28 pm
    Maria Palma said

    Liz,

    In my studies of internet marketing, I’ve learned that pop-ups/unders are pretty effective at capturing people’s attention. I’ve never used them myself, but I do notice that they’re used pretty often - especially among internet marketing bloggers. I’m so used to them that they don’t even bother me. Sometimes I’ll even opt-in or sign-up to any offer from a pop-up, if it’s a good one!

    Everyone has their own preferences though.

33. April 23rd, 2008 at 10:34 pm
    Jay said

    That is a tough one. I’m not sure how I wonder handle it. I guess try talking and politely asking them to change it?

    Jay