Get Your Own Ideas!
For those who come looking for a short, thoughtful read, a blogging life discussion, or a way to gradually ease back into the week. I offer this bloggy life question. . . .
On a recent business trip, you were in the bookstore at a small airport. You bought a business book that’s 7 or 8 years old.You read it on the airplane home, and it sounded strangely familiar. When you got home, you almost forgot until this morning when you went to visit a colleague’s blog. Suddenly, you knew where her ideas were coming from. She has been writing her way, idea for idea, right through the old book you bought.
It seems she forgot to mention that to her readers. Instead her blog carries the tagline “Writings of a thought leader.”
How do you respond?
–ME “Liz” Strauss
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Dear Thought Leader… You will be interested to learn that on my recent jaunt to Katmandu I stumbled upon and purchased a dusty copy of Book X. It was a much quicker read than I expected as most reads are the second time through. I perused it disbelievingly, yet eagerly, hoping with each page turned, my suspicions would be overturned. Sadly, this was not the case. Apparently, you thought this tome much more obscure than it actually is. This is rather unfortunate. You cad, the jig is up. Now, come clean. Or, suffer the wrath of Liz.
Hey Troy!
So you’re going to sick me on her. Yery clever. 🙂
Because her blog states each point in her own way, there is no real violation of copyright or other legal problem. If her work were to be submitted for peer review, or for academic evaluation, then she would be penalized for failing to attribute her work to the earlier book. Unless, of course, the older book and her blog are both based on her own, early work!
I might point out that she might benefit from joining Amazon.com’s affiliate program, and linking to the book at Amazon.com. There would be an implied endorsement of the book, and if visitors to her blog were to buy something at Amazon.com, she might pick up a little revenue.
“If I stand tall, it is because I stand on the shoulders of giants.” (?) In one sense I would find more authority in her work, if I knew she used the book as a basis for her work. On the other hand, if she steps beyond the book, takes a different perspective, or more importantly, adds value by explaining more successfully the contents of the book, then her blog is not a simple copy of Book X. (Thanks for the handy device, Troy!). It is her choice to identify her references. Many of us rely on text books, instructors, and colleagues for the ideas and facts we have learned and the techniques that inspire us. No one fully attributes everything relevant to their work.
My question, is at the end of the book, does she have another resource to base her blog on? I see too much potential value, too little harm to get excited about this.
Hi Brad!
It is true that you can’t copyright an idea. However, to copy ideas in a plan wholesale and present them one by one as your own can also be a violation. After all, rewording World Book Encylopedia is still plagiarism.
In my mind, to be a thought leader, even if she added her own spin — probably not based on the fact that the book was so familiar — ethics would call for mentioning the influence of the book. Such a close resemblance makes it difficult to think she doesn’t remember it and what she got from it.
May or may not be a legal issue, but there would certainly appear to be an ethical issue here!
Me, I’m just bitchy enough about that kind of dishonesty to be sorely tempted to pull out the sugar-coated stiletto and slip it between the ribs of her blog, post by post —
You know, just dropping a sweetness-and-light comment on every second post, comme ça:
“What a fascinating insight! It rather reminds me in many ways of something similar in BOOK by AUTHOR – somewhere around PAGE X, I think it was – where he says [insert quotation that most closely parallels the blog post’s key point]. Of course, that book was written X years ago – so what a refreshing treat to see this idea come back to light again, all spontaneously, from the mind of another writer. Just goes to prove the idea is natural gold, does it not?!”
And do that every other day, until she starts banning your comments.
But you will, of course, have kept copies of the same – which would make a stunning little series of articles on your own blog…
If that business book is still in print, I’d b inclined to (dofollow) link heavily back to the publisher, too.
Or… just let the Flying Fickle Finger of Fate (a.k.a. karma) catch up with her and poke her in the eye. But a little persisten drip of sweet poison would be oh-so-much more satisfying!
Would I really follow through and do such a thing? I don’t know. Terminally ‘nice’ – I don’t know if I could…
Hi Jen,
I love your last paragraph. I’m not sure how I’d respond either. I’m thinking at the moment, I might ask to send her a copy of a book that I think she might find interesting. Then having a copy shipped from my bookstore of choice to her house. (I assume that her other copy might be worn.)
It’s the ethics of it. After all she’s acting less like the leader she bills herself than one might expect.
C’mon! How about a Bloggy Question I can agree with you!! 😀
Ideas come from all places ..
If I took the effort .. I will bet you 100% that I can find at least one blog or newspaper article or Problogger post or CNN news headline or Michelle Malkin commentary or maybe even something from your very own archives – that this is not an original idea.
Yet – people come here to discuss and are thinking about it .. and your tagline says .. “Thinking, writing, business ideas..” ..
Isn’t this all the same?
It’s all the same as my opinion on other Bloggy Questions .. I am AGAINST moral police. Now .. if this colleague was quoting word for word sentences from this airport book then, obviously that’s an entirely different issue we can all agree (it’s bad).
But .. to take certain basic principles out of a popular business book (which, I might add – you probably wouldn’t be seeing business books in an airport newstand or bookstore unless it was popular) and expand those principles and call them your ideas .. well .. that’s A-O-K in my book.
I am mindful of my favorite quote from Baz Luhrmann’s Everybody’s Free To Wear Sunscreen …
Be careful whose advice you buy, but, be patient with those who supply it. Advice is a form of nostalgia, dispensing it is a way of
fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it’s worth.
I wouldn’t put down people who take ideas and make it their own – I would promote that.
Hart – I LOVE the Sunscreen! Thanks for bringing back a great reference.
Brad – I really enjoy your comments. You remind me of the “mind like water.” Always even keeled, optimistic, and never in a hurry to pass judgment.
Liz – I have to say, if the blog follows the book idea for idea with no credit – then that is brazen. I would probably leave a nice comment that says something about how I like her spin on the ideas presented in Book X. Then I would probably find a different blog to read.
I don’t hold finding inspiration against anybody – I am now thinking of the beginning of the best part of the last Rocky where he tells his son (who desperately needs to be straightened out), “Let me tell you something you already know.” Rarely do I read something that I find truly original. But the delivery is where the “special” is.
Hi HART,
I’m not sure that we disagree!
And the questions wouldn’t be any fun if they were all cut and dried, would they? 😛
I have absolutely no problem with ideas inspiring other ideas. But there’s a way to do it and I’m not talking fine point police — I don’t being at the mercy of other folks getting to “pick” either.
These are the guidelines I use on when to cite an idea:
Citing ideas is the same as linking back to a blog post. In this case it’s even more important. If a person picks up “Darren’s 23 steps to blogging for popcorn,” and rephrases them into new words, the 23 steps are still Darren’s thinking and he deserves to be cited for it. That’s what I’m talking about. If this “thought leader” is going through the book step-by-step, she’s doing that and should cite the book author.
Hi April!
How well you’ve said it all, complete with a Rocky reference!! I’m smiling back at you. 🙂
It is the delivery where the “special” is. It would seem that if we always honor that folks would be inclined to share their ideas.
G’morning Liz!~
Your guidelines are pretty good, for the most part, if you are expanding on writing complex theories and statistical analysis of specific data etc etc etc .. – and I never have problem with the concept of gratutious attribution.
But, for hypothetical business book on hand, which could be secret guerilla marketing tips, or how to make money in your business, or cut down expenses, or be successful .. generally, the end game is usually the same.
As an example, if I read in a book or other place that suggests that one way to save money that every business should consider is to “downsize” their operations like relocating to a smaller location … I might suggest that downsizing might mean more than just reducing costs, but letting staff go, selling the Beamer and Caddy, and foregoing the Hawaii trips 4 times a year and stuff like that. Should I mention where I got the downsizing idea from?
In my experience as a terminally-addicted BlogLines reader is that there really aren’t too many original ideas out there. Even Darren’s 23-Steps were probably inspired by Matilda’s 15-steps but expanded on, which could have been originally expanded on Schmoley’s 10-step list posted the following week back on Darren’s own group writing effort – on a topic suggested by Darren. It’s a shame that Schmoley’s 10 step list was probably so go that it was replicated 3 times, and now everybody links to Darren’s 23-step list because some guidelines suggested they should do that.
Hi HART,
In the case of Darren’s 23 popcorn steps that you outline right above, I’d have to consider, but I’m guessing that I would personally decide on whether I had used it to build my own list. If I sat down next to it and wrote up my list, it wouldn’t matter if I had 22 or 34 as a result, I’d probably say he inspired it. If it were a popular idea and I just went “hmmmm, good topic, I should write about it too,” then wrote to my heart’s leanings, I would be less likely.
By saying “thought leader” I am lead to believe that the person is touting themselves to be an expert in the process of thinking.
I don’t think that an expert should be able to be nailed down to a single source of information/inspiration like that.
Even without citing things (as you gain knowledge from dozens or hundreds of resources and experiences), someone should not be able to go one place, such as that book, and find the structure of ALL of the expert’s knowledge right there.
A good test of their expertise would be to have them write a book. The chapters would all be the same, only with a new perspective on the same thought framework. That would be a disappointing read.
Hi Jesse!
That’s what I’m thinking. It’s fine to reinterpret someone else’s system, theory, or strategy. It gets a little muddy when we forget to say that someone got to that thinking before we did and that fact isn’t obvious to the folks who are reading. 🙂
Well, it’s a question of “fair use,” really, isn’t it? Of course all ideas come from somewhere… where the ethical line is crossed, surely, is when a “substantial” amount of the original work serves as the “inspiration” without due credit being given. And it sounds, Liz, as you describe the post-by-post chapter-by-chapter “borrowing” that’s going on in this case, that the basic tenets are fair use are not being respected. I can’t help feeling that it’s a disservice to the readers of the derivative Thought Leader, on top of everything else.
Hi Jen,
I agree. It would seem that a service motive would lead a writer to want to point to the book so that readers could go there to get the “understory” of the current information I offer. Putting that option out there would probably underscore the writer’s credibility, if not making her a stand out thought leader.
Liz, I am tempted to consider print media, especially monographs, and blogs as apples and oranges.
Print media goes through a number of reviews, is written usually over a period of time. References are usually kept formally, especially for academic work, so are handy to include in the book. The inclusion of references generally enhances the value of the work printed in the book, by providing research information for the reader that wants to verify the background assumptions of the work. References increase the authority of the book by reducing the amount of content that must appear to stand on it’s own and increasing the amount of content already accepted from other sources.
A blog, on the other hand, is sometimes well thought out and planned, and sometimes quite, um, ad lib. A blog links to another blog with relevant material for some of the same reasons as references published in books, to increase the authority of the blog by relating portions of the content to accepted content published elsewhere. But links also provide expansions of material (wikipedia entries, other blogs, etc.). And links carry an immediate cache of ‘link love’.
Not every blogger has an academic background, and expects all their work to be peer reviewed. Many of us are still tickled over the not-quite-obvious spam (“This is exactly what I expected to find under [insert blog title here]”)!
The relatively few number of book publishers means that each new publisher quickly stumbles over the wailing and gnashing of teeth over incomplete or missing references. So many blog authors are incompletely familiar with links, link strategies, and the difference between references and ‘visit my friend because we exchanged links and I think their blog is awesome’ links, I doubt anyone will get in trouble over dropped references.
I also expect this ‘problem’ to be self-correcting. The more popular the blog, the more consideration and care will go into each post. At some point this author will discover the value of references. Or come to the end of her book.
Liz, Could you provide a link for your ‘blogging on popcorn’ reference? I tried googling, and the closes I could find was ‘Choking on Popcorn’, http://www.chokingonpopcorn.com/popcorn/ – “Sweet and Salty Movie Reviews”.
Thanks!
Hi Brad!
Your analysis is fascinating and intriguing. I so enjoyed reading it. And though I don’t want to let bloggers off the hook, I fully admit that it’s a credible world view on the subject. Personally, I think it lowers the standard of the discourse. Doc Searls credits ideas that come up in conversation, but then he has conversations with true thought leaders who have access to information and time with other thinkers to knock out perspectives on new thoughts, such as where the Internet really is going.
As far as the article by Darren I mention, the title I used was totally fictious. I’m sorry I didn’t make that clear. I guess my relationship with Darren make that easy for me to see, not so easy for everyone else. Hard to spot that sort of hidden assumption. Apologies for the time you spent looking.
Brad K., I just want to second Liz’s first remark about your ‘analysis’ – it’s interesting, well thought out, and well expressed. And it made me smile (that insert-title spammer guy sure gets around!)… I may have to quote you – with appropriate references, of course!